As I was doing my daily browsing of the Internet, searching for videos of cats playing ping-pong and water-skiing squirrels, I stumbled upon this article from Ian O'Connor over at Fox Sports titled, "In a do-over, Eli still gets draft nod over Big Ben."My first thought was, "oh crap, not this again." Being the sane, rational person that I am, I decided to give Mr. O'Connor's article a shot and see if he might be able to enlighten me, offering convincing evidence that Eli Manning is indeed better than Ben Roethlisberger, as he suggests.
He failed. Not only did he fail, he made me want to take my laptop and throw it against the wall, repeatedly, until Ian O'Connor's article ceased to exist on my computer screen. I screamed various expletives as if he could hear me, stomping around the house screaming his name. O'Connor! O'Connor! O'Connor!
Now, let me be clear: I'm not going to sit here and blow a bunch of smoke up your butts and pretend to be some sort of unbiased, neutral third-party. Because I'm not. As you may already know, I am a Steelers fan, which makes me incredibly biased -- and passionate -- about this topic. What I am going to do, however, is attempt to offer objective facts, many of which O'Connor uses in his own article, to prove his is full of ... well.
First, O'Connor does much of the dirty work for us, by starting his article with an outline of all of the key statistical areas for an NFL quarterback: touchdown passes, completion percentage, passer rating, fewer interceptions, and, oh, won-loss record, all of which favor Roethlisberger. Pretty convincing, yes?
Well, unless your name is Ian O'Connor.
Everything changed in a New York minute last winter, when the maddeningly inconsistent Manning ripped off consecutive postseason victories over Tony Romo, Brett Favre and Tom Brady to give the Giants the most improbable Super Bowl title since the one claimed by Joe Namath's Jets. Suddenly, Eli was the equal of big brother Peyton, a Super Bowl MVP universally hailed for his precision and poise.Excuse me while I gag. First, the Giants run to the Super Bowl last year, and their victory over the Patriots, was awesome. Eli Manning was a huge part of it, and he -- and his teammates -- deserve major, major props for their accomplishment. But was it any more improbable than the Steelers' Super Bowl run from two years before -- which O'Connor later downgrades because of, "help from refs." HA! Real original, Ian -- when they had to win their final four regular-season games just to earn the AFC's No. 6 seed, and then proceed to beat the one, two and three seeds in the AFC, followed by the No. 1 seed in the NFC? Of course not. Both runs were equally improbable, and nobody saw either one coming.
Of course, those are petty differences and seemingly pointless arguments. It's like debating who you would rather wake up next to, Eva Longoria or Angelina Jolie. Can you really go wrong?
Let's get on to the real nonsense.
Eli is 1-0 in the postseason vs. the ultimate measuring stick, Brady; Roethlisberger is 0-1.Ian! You've convinced me! Because Roethlisberger, as a rookie playing in the AFC Championship game, lost to a Tom Brady team he is clearly inferior to Manning. As a quick side note, Jake Plummer was 1-0 in the postseason vs. Troy Aikman, while Brett Favre was 0-1 in the postseason vs. Troy Aikman. I guess that means Ian O'Connor is taking Jake Plummer over Brett Favre. Both comparisons, by the way, are pointless and have nothing to do with either player's longterm value. Jake Plummer, by the way, is also 1-0 against Tom Brady in the playoffs. Crazy stuff.
Roethlisberger takes too many hits for too many lost yards - he's been sacked 164 times, or 65 times more than ManningWhilee it's true Roethlisberger gets sacked more than any quarterback this side of J.T. O'Sullivan or Mittens!, it's just the style he plays. He never gives up on a play, and while he may take his share of sacks, he also manages to shake defenders off like they're nothing and turn potential sacks into plays. For all the attention Manning's Super Bowl escape-and-toss gets, Roethlisberger makes a similar play seemingly every week. Just go back and watch the fourth quarter of the Week 5 game against Jacksonville.
Manning has grown up in the tougher, noisier market, has weathered brutal criticism from the media and the fans and has managed the heavy expectations that come with being a Manning and a No. 1 overall pick.I'm not going to pretend the Pittsburgh media market is more insane and overbearing than the New York market, but let's not for one second think Pittsburgh is all fun and games. Just ask Cliff Stoudt, Tommy Maddox and Kordell Stewart.
Perhaps I'm overreacting to O'Connor's article. He's not saying Roethlisberger is a piece of crap as a quarterback and should be sitting on the bench. He actually gives him credit -- sort of -- as being a great player and that "there is no wrong answer." Though, I'd argue there is a wrong answer, and the wrong answer is Eli Manning. But I digress. Sort of.
It's just that his reasoning is so ridiculous, as he ignores overwhelming statistical evidence and still charges full-steam ahead with Eli Manning. He even quotes former Giants General Manager Ernie Accorsi as saying this:
"You can't go wrong with either one of them," said former Giants general manager Ernie Accorsi. "But I have absolutely no regard for statistics when it comes to evaluating quarterbacks. I only care about wins, whether a guy can get you into the end zone and whether he can make the play on third and long."Ernie! You're making it easy! Wins? As O'Connor pointed out in his third paragraph, this area favors Roethlisberger. Getting into the end zone? Again, if you reference the third paragraph of O'Connor's article you see this area (touchdowns) also favors, you guessed it, Roethlisberger. And that's without counting rushing touchdowns (those count, too).
As a Steelers fan, I hear this crap all the time from the national talking heads and opposing teams fans. "Oh, but they just ask Roethlisberger to manage the game, blah blah blah, he doesn't really do anything, blah blah blah." Nonsense.
While people talk about how strong the Steelers' supporting cast was around Roethlisberger his rookie season, they never mention that the same cast of players went 6-10 the previous year, and only had the opportunity to pick Roethlisberger in the 2004 draft because the team was so mind-numbingly awful. The only major changes to the roster were Roethlisberger, and the free-agent signing of Duce Staley, who spent most of his Steelers career standing around on the sidelines in sweatpants.
While the Steelers have never been a team that throws the ball 600 times over the course of a season, they have been, since Roethlisberger arrived, a pass-first team. Meaning, they throw the ball early, build a big lead, and then run the football all over you in the second half. It's his team.
If you go with the objective facts -- that O'Connor provides for you! -- the easy answer is Roethlisberger. Certainly, it's your right to choose Manning, but I think you're making the wrong choice. And if you don't believe me, perhaps you'll believe the good folks over at Cold Hard Football Facts.
The Steelers and Giants, by the way, play each other this Sunday. Should be a great game, and I have no idea what's going to happen. The Steelers may win. The Giants may win. But regardless, I'll probably have no voice on Monday.


















Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
10-22-2008 @ 7:59PM
Wade said...
Gretz- Nice FJM work here.
Reply
10-22-2008 @ 8:02PM
Adam Gretz said...
Yeah, I guess it kind of was. Though, FJM is far better at what they do than I am. I just got a little carried away.
10-22-2008 @ 8:34PM
joe said...
What a joke of an article.
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10-22-2008 @ 8:03PM
rob said...
I'd take Eli.
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10-22-2008 @ 9:10PM
julie said...
GO GIANTS!!!!! That's all I have to say since I was 12 yrs. old. A true fan here boys and girls....40 yrs. and older than most of your parents and/or history lessons 'fer chrissakes!" On that note..I live with 2 "Squeeler"fans and work with a few more...even a Browns junkie who was very polite by the way,,,I feel as nervous as a Yankee fan {which I am...sory} so close yet so far away...
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10-22-2008 @ 9:09PM
julie said...
Ben is old...kinda like :Brett the Jet? who by the way is doing jeans commercials....
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10-23-2008 @ 9:52AM
jackson said...
Be a Giants Fan - just don't be an idiot!! Ben is almost 20 yrs your junior....
By the way, Roethlisberger's 92.5 Passer Rating score after four seasons places him second behind Dan Marino (95.2). Montana placed third with a rating of 88.0, followed by Brady (85.9), Favre (85.2), Manning (85.1), Kelly (82.7), Aikman (76.4), and the late-blooming Elway (71.9).
....get over it....Best of luck on Sunday and Go Steelers!
SOURCE:http://profootball.scout.com/2/770206.html
10-23-2008 @ 9:53AM
Will said...
Julie,
Obviously you don't know that much about football...Ben is old?! He was drafted the same year as Eli! He has only been playing for 5 years (this is his fifth)...just like Eli! Sorry, but Eli makes WAY too many mistakes. I was born and raised in NYC and while I have always been a Steeler fan, I always followed the Giants and rooted for them. I have been a HUGE football fan since 1972 and have seen many greats. With all that said, while Eli may be a very good QB and accomplished something awesome by beating the Patriots last year, he is still not as good as Ben. The year the Steelers won the Super Bowl, it was Ben's arm and legs that got them past the Bengals, Colts, and Broncos.
10-24-2008 @ 4:26PM
DB said...
Are you a complete idoit? Ben is old? He's 23, Einstein, and already has a ring.
10-24-2008 @ 11:06PM
mrmojo112 said...
...Ben's 26. Learn you stats before you type.
10-23-2008 @ 8:23PM
nunya said...
I have to burst your bubble julie, you're EXTREMELY LUCKY that Dallas keeps shooting themselves in both their feet and that Brady is out! LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY! Oh well on to a more hating note, why is ELI in this? I mean midway thru last season he was practically kicked out of your team by fellow fans. Weird, just saying! This just goes to show that FANHOUSE is biased as can be. If I had to pick, It be NEITHER!!
Dallas WILL be back, you can count on it!!!!!
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10-22-2008 @ 10:22PM
Mark in SC said...
Good article; I read Ian's article, considered the source, and then decided that I don't care how good of a quarterback Eli becomes, I'd still take Ben.
I believe that when healthy, Carson Palmer is technically the best QB in the AFC North, and I'd still take a banged up Big Ben over him, or any other QB. Ben has the "it" factor.
How many times has he gotten away from a defender to extend a play, and make a pass that makes a huge difference in the game? I've lost count.
Last year in the Super Bowl (and I was a Giants fan that day), when Eli broke away from the defenders in the 4th quarter and completed a pass to get a key first down, there were probably lots of folks thinking, "Gosh, he looked like Roethlisberger on that play", but I seriously doubt that a few weeks ago when Ben completed a key pass to Ward against the Jaguars with defenders hanging all over him, that anyone said "Gosh, he looked just like Eli in the Super Bowl on that play".
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10-23-2008 @ 9:52AM
DallasCowboysRock said...
Hmm, well I think your right on a some things. First, your right, Ben Roethlisberger is better than Eli Manning. Eli Manning is a good, but not great quarterback. He has become one of the most overrated players in the league and if not for his last name, he would never even have been drafted as high as he was. People are trying to say that after more than 3 years of mediocrity that Eli has suddenly become an "elite" quarterback in this league? I'd like to see more consistency out of him first. Second, the Giants Superbowl run was one of the most amazing and improbable things to happen in recent NFL history. Third, the Steelers got all the calls in their Superbowl game against Seattle. Whether the refs did it on purpose or just because bad judgment is unknown. The Giants won their Superbowl game because of their amazing pass rush and a fairly lucky play by a wide receiver who will never do anything else of importance in his sure to be brief career. Interesting article...
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10-23-2008 @ 9:55AM
Matt said...
Yes, Ben Roethlisberger must have played in Europe. Just look at his last name! Seriously, some people are too dumb to have computers.
Moving on -- for all of the people talking about the Steelers getting the calls in the Super Bowl -- go ask Bill Simmons or any Patriots fan how many holding calls were ignored on Eli's "miracle" touchdown. Without which, the Giants would not have had their 3-point win.
Meanwhile -- and I can't believe we're still talking about this nonsense -- here is a list of all of the "questionable" calls in the Steelers 11-point win over the Seahawks:
* obvious offensive pass interference called to nullify touchdown when Darrell Jackson pushed off in the endzone
* Roethlisberger crossing the goal line on the first Steeler TD, which happened on 3rd and inches -- meaning that even if he'd not gotten in, the Steelers would have had another crack inside the 1
* borderline holding call on Locklear that looked like holding to me, but that could have been ignored (as in the case of Eli's miraculous play)
* weird call for a low "block" during an interception return -- which is a strange rule to be sure, but one that was propoerly enforced here, and that had been called on the Steelers during one of their regular season losses
Meanwhile, all that the Steelers had to do was overcome the Colts after being denied a game-clinching interception that the league ADMITTED was a mistake.
But rather than win the game and complain about the tough breaks they had to overcome to do it, the Seahawks decided to look for excuses and blame others for their own poor showing and poor game management. Now if only the refs had helped Seattle's defense to tackle Willie Parker on that long run . . . .
10-23-2008 @ 10:59PM
JHawkey said...
DallasCowboysRock
You have got to out of your complete f-cking mind.Please just go to all your Dallas games and cheer for your Cowboys...Don't ever try to evaluate talent or talk about football to anyone ever again...please I beg you. ....OMG!!!
10-26-2008 @ 9:46PM
indy Steelers said...
Seriously, does anyone think Ben will win another SB? I hope I am wrong but I think he has Marino syndrome. A great early start to his career and then he will tank it. Ben's playoff record in his first two seasons is 5-1, since then, two seasons, he is 0-1. He is going to have to win another SB ring before he can even be considered a "great" QB. I put quite a bit of the blame on his struggles this season on Arians for not letting Ben go no huddle. Arians sucks! We are 0-2 so far this year against the NFC and if you do not think that that is a big deal, we will have to beat a NFC team to win the SB.
10-23-2008 @ 9:52AM
R + R = R said...
amazing breakdown. well done. i'd take ben too. but it's really close. after this year's playoffs, could be a different story.
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10-23-2008 @ 9:53AM
jackson said...
Interesting article that compares Roethlisberger to Fall of Famers and present QB's after their 1st 4 yrs in the league...including Eli Manning.
NOTE: MANNING FANS - Just read the whole freakin article. It's a good article and sure it points out the bad...and the good. Make sure you read the end of it when it compares Fall of Fame QBs to Roethlisberger. By the way, shouldn't being a bad_ss outside the pocket count for something?
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10-23-2008 @ 9:53AM
jackson said...
Steve Young currently holds the NFL record for the highest career passer rating for any player with at least 1500 attempts with a mark of 96.8. The highest passer rating for a complete season is 121.1 set by Peyton Manning in 2004. Also in 2004, rookie Ben Roethlisberger posted a mark of 98.1, setting a new record for first-year passers. There have been 34 quarterbacks to complete a game with a perfect passer rating of 158.3 (and only 4 to have accomplished this more than once), the most recent being Kurt Warner in 2008. Only Warner, Roethlisberger and Manning have three career perfect games. Roethlisberger has recorded three of the last seven perfect games in the NFL.
SOURCE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passer_rating
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10-23-2008 @ 9:53AM
dagger said...
Great response article. Couldn't agree more.
We put up a statistical breakdown that backs up what we all already knew:
http://www.postgameheroes.com/?p=4113
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