Dan Marino Thinks Packers Regret Trading Brett Favre, Shannon Sharpe Disagrees

Once again, you've proven your analysis of football to be only skin deep. Sure, on the surface, no one can argue that the defense needs some work and the running game hasn't been as effective. But have you asked why this is the case?

Last year, teams had to respect Brett Favre and not stack the box against the run. They do not fear Aaron Rodgers in this regard. They can play up close against the run. Furthermore, since the Green Bay offense uses a lot of short passes designed for after catch yardage, playing closer to scrimmage allows them to sit on more of these routes. Did you see how much cushion Jennings and Driver got last year with Favre? They were scarcely touched within the first 8 yards.

Aaron doesn't have that. That's why he can't rely on the running game nor his own short passing game. Aaron has a problem sustaining drives. Sure, he rakes up good end of game statistics. Lots of yards, a bunch of touchdowns, and a decent completion percentage. But frankly, anyone who knows anything about football knows that end-game statistics mean nothing. Aaron hits some deep bombs once in a while when there is a breakdown, because they don't respect him enough.

But he also makes very untimely errors that kills drives. Sure, if you throw it up a lot, especially if you're behind and you're throwing against a prevent-minded defense toward the end of a game, where they FINALLY let up some cushion, sure you are going to have great end-game statistics. But that doesn't win you football games. Plenty of quarterbacks can rake up good endgame stats. The real quarterbacks make something out of them.

Now, I'm not saying that Aaron isn't a good QB. Over half the league should be salivating over such a talent if they had a shot of getting him, because, frankly, the standard for QB's is pretty low. But there is no doubt Green Bay would have won more games so far with Brett under center. The reason that 13-3 team won't be 13-3 this year can be traced back in large part to the QB change.

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um, Ryan, youre my boy blue and all, but uh...

last year, the Packers had virtually a non existant running game through the first seven, and thats about the time when oh, the old guy who cant play anymore? was airing it out like a madman(or Kurt Warner, take your pick), gettting the Pack off to a very impressive start, correct?

was the mighty Grant there then? no.

the defense was also overhyped last year as well, so really, whats the excuse?

Aaron Rodgers is Mr Glass. the guy is a career chandelier, and the people who media darling this never was cant stand the idea that a has been who still is just so happens to function quite nicely...in another uniform.

oh, for the record, keep in mind that wonderboy was supposed to do BETTER with this Pack unit than Favre was, right?

and uh, where were the Jets headed BEFORE Favre?

yeah. let it go.

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Greed--Ted Thompson wanted his boy in and created in his head the idea Brett wasn't worth keeping. Pushed him into declaring retirement and planned that when he changed his mind (of course he was going to change his mnd--so what?)they could "move on." Treated Brett with complete disrespect. Favre could probably not imagine in any corner of his mind that the Packers, whom he had "lifted out of nowhere" in the early nineties would not want him after his previous season.

Bet they had to really kick Brett in the gut for him to get their point.(Favre said there were 'shocking' events.)

Rodgers problem is exactly as predicted--no durability. The team played better last year because Brett completely changes the dynamics. Silly TT thought they were interchangable.

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The Packers would never admit it publicly but of course they regret trading Favre. The Packers are a far better team with Favre. They will most likely miss the playoffs which would never happen with Favre there. It will hurt even more when Brett leads the Jets into the post season. The only way this move isn't considered a total disaster is if Brett retires this year and Rodgers has a long successful career with Green Bay. Short term Favre was the obvious choice and I think you have to play for today.

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Um, what you're missing Ryan (and you too Sharpe) is that the Packers had *NO* running game for the first half of the season. None. Zip. Nothing...Ryan Grant emerged because, despite that, the Packers were still winning & opposing D's had to play the pass.

Favre didn't have to run the ball, and he wouldn't have had to this year either...the leadership, threat of the big play and unpredictability got them where they were last year allowing the talent of the rest of the team to develop and is everything that's missing now.

The Pack & Rodgers looked great against the Vikes (who's QB racked up an amazing 6 yards passing the first half of that game) and the Lions (who, are the Lions). As you sit there watching an old QB with less than 4 months of knowledge of the offense (vs. 4 years in GB) and a group of receivers who don't compare at all to those in GB rack up double the TD's...the answer is obvious. Favre should've been brought back another year to let that Packer talent develop further & generate the money to keep them in GB.

Rodgers is a good QB...but the rest of the team needed a great QB to develop...just as the youngest team in the NFL with no running game did last year when they went 13-3.

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If anything, I MIGHT think about regretting that Favre re-un-retired. Given his waffling, trading him was the only option if you want to have any shot of eventually having Aaron as the QB. As for this year, I'd say Rodgers and Favre are a push. But, long term, it was the only decision.

No ill-will to Favre. I hope he does well for at least this year and maybe next, although I don't want him to stick around too long the way Marino did. Marino was great, but those last years of his were painful to see.

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Lots of idiots in this thread.

Yes, there was no run game at the start of last season either. The difference is, the Defense was light's out last year. And while Green Bay's secondary has suddenly become full of ball-hawks, the defensive line is a complete joke. They can't stop the run, and they're getting no pressure on QB's.

Until they played the Seattle Charlie Frye's yesterday, they hadn't had a sack for something like 10 quarters.

Then there's the offensive line. They've barely been able to protect Rodgers. Last year, the Packers surrendered 13 sacks the entire season. They've already given up 12 this year. What? You think the difference is because of Favre. Possibly - except he's already been sacked 11 times this year, too, so it wasn't all Favre. Oh, and don't forget all the False Starts - as of this past weekend, the Packer offensive line was the most penalized one in the league.

Then there's Special Teams. The Special Teams were fantastic for the Pack last year, and really helped carry the team through a couple of those games. This year? Not so special. Coverage has been lackluster.

Last year, the only fatal flaw the Packers had was that they couldn't run the ball for the first half of the season. Well this year, they still can't run the ball - and now they can't stop the run either, and their ST hasn't been very impressive.

And don't blame the run game on Rodgers. Instead of talking out your ass, try actually, you know, WATCHING a game. The holes are there. The lanes are there. Grant is just plowing right into the back of his linemen, and is going down at first contact. He's pathetic this year.

Enough with the Favre/Rodgers crap. Rodgers is fine. It's just that, aside from the secondary, most of the team has regressed.

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Favre bailing the team out...like he did in OT in the NFC Championship?

Rodgers numbers are not coming in garbage time. At least be honest with yourself - you're mad at the team for getting rid of Favre, so you're going to do whatever you can to blame this season's struggles on management and their decision to ditch Favre.

Get over it. Favre was great, and he gave us 17 unforgettable years. But he's the one that decided he was done with Green Bay. He didn't want to come back to Green Bay.

Move on and shut the hell up.

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Before you call people idiots, you might want to listen to yourself. On one hand you're saying the O line sucks because they can't protect Rodgers & in the same breath are saying they're good enough to open plenty of holes/lanes for Grant, but nothing's happening because he sucks. Wait, no, it's the D...they were so good at stopping the run last year (did you watch the NFC Championship game? Favre didn't lose that game...the Giants ran all over them the ENTIRE game).

You can keep passing the blame all you like, but when after WATCHING the games...all I see is the opposing D's not just relying on their D line to get to the QB anymore. The linebackers aren't playing deep to help defend the receivers, instead relying on basic man to man with safety help giving up the occasional big pass. The Packers major strength last year was yards after catch...and the majority of those YAC came from the short passing game. If you watched the game yesterday, Driver was nailed (and nailed HARD) immediately almost every time he got the ball...with multiple defenders in the area. They aren't playing deep & that has nothing to do with the O line or the defensive struggles. There is no fear.

13-3 team with an obviously more talented players & good QB and a 4-12 rag-tag team on both sides of the ball (also with no running game) & an old QB running a new system look almost identical this year to this point. Why? For some reason, defenses have to adjust to the 4-12 team more than the 13-3 this year...could be all the TD's.

Bottom line, if the team has degraded as much as YOU say, it's just goes to prove the point even more...Packers Management has no clue as to what kind of team they actually have and were in no position to get rid of one of the top 3 QB's in the league last year. Bad business decision.

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I know this is impossible for you to comprehend, Jim, but good teams do sometimes regress and/or get off to bad starts.

Look at the Chargers. 3-3.
Look at the Saints. 10-6 and the NFC Championship in 06-07, 7-9 last year, 3-3 this year.
Look at Jacksonville. 3-3.
Look at Indianapolis. 3-3.
Look at Cleveland. 1-3.
Look at Seattle. 1-4.
Look at Chicago. Super Bowl in '07, 7-9 last year.

The Green Bay Packers? 3-3.

Some of those teams have struggled for no obvious reason at all (not unlike the Packers - Barnett, offensive line, etc). Others have struggled due to injuries (not unlike the Packers - Jenkins, Harris, Bigby, etc.).

Believe it or not, the National Football League does not revolve around Our Lord and Savior Brett Favre.

Oh, and since you keep prattling on and on about the deep ball and how it apparently is so magical that it even influences how the defense plays:

Brett Favre's longest pass through 7 weeks last year: 60 yards
Rodgers longest pass through 6 weeks this year: 62 yards.

In his first 6 weeks so far, Rodgers has had a pass of 40+ yards in all 6 games. In his first 6 weeks last year, Favre only did it in 4 games. Not to mention, Favre had 9 TDs to 6 INTs...Rodgers has 11 TDs to 4 INTs.

So what were you saying about the deep ball again? Obviously there are more factors at play here than simply the QBs. Rodgers has done more these first six weeks than Favre did in the first six weeks last year. Therefore, the difference in the W column is not on Rodgers.

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@Brody

I'm not sure if it's ignorance of football, or just you being tired of hearing about Favre (I can understand the feeling), but you're spouting nonsense.

First of all, the number of sacks a person takes is, yes, dependent in part on the ability of the quarterback to move in the pocket, check down, or hot read. But that's only half the equation. The other half is the willingness of opposing defenses to bring blitzes on the quarterback. Generally speaking, defenses are reluctant to blitz great quarterbacks, because they're afraid of selling out and getting burned. It's laughable how few times a game defenses are willing to blitz the likes of Manning and Brady. Favre got the same treatment.

And this treatment often makes offensive lines better than they are. That's why the GB offensive line and the Patriots offensive line, both which were considered among the best in the league, got exposed in the NFC championship game and Superbowl respectively. Spagnuolo had a D-line that was so talented, it could bring the kind of pressure that you normally have to sell out to achieve, just by bringing the down linemen. That's how the Giants overcame both these teams. Great quarterbacks make the o-lines look better than they are, so whenever someone is willing to sell out, or can pressure with 4 down linemen, the offense struggles.

And where exactly do you get the idea that defensive pressure on QB's and special teams coverage have considerably regressed? Since you like stats so much, you can look them up yourself. The Packers right now are on pace to make as many sacks this year as they did last year. The average return yardage allowed per kick/punt is almost exactly the same as last year (within a +/- margin of a single yard). Doesn't look to me like they are any better off last year than this year.

Like I said before, it's about sustaining drives. Last year, there was a 3-1 pass to rush ratio on conversions for first down. This year, it's a 2-1 ratio. And the Packers are on pace to get far fewer first downs this year than last year. Simply put, Rodgers simply can't do it as well as Favre. Sure, he'll hit a deep one every now and then when there is a breakdown in the secondary. But Rodgers can't finish drives. Especially when the field is short in the red zone and the secondary as less ground to cover. The Cowboys game is a great example of that.

As for your quoting the stat on their longest passes early in the season, that stat is meaningless. It isn't about what the quarterbacks actually manage to do. It's about how defenses fear/play them. It doesn't matter if Rodgers hits them deep. They're not going to drop into deep coverage like they would for Favre. They're going to sit instead on short routes and sell out for pressure. Rodgers simply doesn't command that kind of respect from opposing defenses. Will he one day? Maybe. But right now, he doesn't, and it's hurting the team's running, it's getting the receivers pounded more, and it's stifling the ability to sustain drives (which keeps GB defense rested, and tires out opposing defenses).

And let's be clear about something here. Brett Favre succeeded with this exact same personnel, with over 15 years' worth of tape on his game. Aaron Rodgers has only been starting for less than half a season. Defenses have yet to collect enough material to fully dissect him. Aaron is benefiting right now from the early honeymoon period that every decent quarterback gets when he starts out. Whether he'll overcome being fully diagnosed by opposing defenses, we don't know yet. Maybe, maybe not.

What we do know is that Brett Favre would have made Green Bay better than it is now. It may not be apparent to all those people out there that only get their understanding of football from ESPN and fantasy stat checks, but anyone who really watches football can discern the difference that Favre makes.

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I guess we'll have to see how the season plays out. I don't know and neither do you, but this is what he's ON PACE for. Favre also had his share of stat-padding games against NFL weaklings.

I'm just saying this isn't comparing Rodgers to Favre's first year, or his last year, or his average year; this is comparing him to his BEST year. And he's comparing fairly well so far despite injury, spotty protection and a weak running game.

I don't know which Strawman you're referring to, but I'm not giving Rodgers all the credit for any win nor absolving him from his role in our losses. I'm simply pointing out that he's playing very, very well right now and I'm certain we haven't seen his best yet.

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Shannon Sharp has proved once again he is an idiot. Packers management made a great miscalculation and can't take it back. So they go forward. Yes, the packers were better with Favre at QB for most of the reasons already listed above. Very good comments for the most part. Except for Brody, who shows a lack of intelligence on par with Sharp. One of the best of all time, he makes everyone on a team better including the water boy. He makes every defense stutter just a little, just a tenth. In about three years you'll have a clue if Aaron Rogers can carry Brett's jock strap. I say that it is no better than 25% chance of that.

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Aaron Rodgers, in his first year as a starter, is currently on pace to have over 4000 yards (rushing and passing), 40 TDs (rushing and passing), a passer rating of 98 and only 10 interceptions.

This compares quite well to Brett Favre's BEST SEASONS EVER!!!!

Despite the injury to his shoulder, despite the spotty protection, despite the weak running game, despite the soft defense.......in his first season, Aaron Rodgers is on pace to equal Brett Favre's best season ever.

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